Car won't start after sitting for 2 years even with a jump. Is it a starter or alternator issue?

Question

My parents have a 2001 Pontiac Aztek that's been sitting for two years.

Apparently, before they stopped using it, there was an oil leak that caused starter problems (they couldn't find the leak), and they replaced it multiple times. And, the battery is as dead as dead gets...doesn't hold a charge to save its life.

Based on the first part, I would assume it's a starter problem, but articles like this one: https://www.championautoparts.com/Parts-Matter/automotive-repair-and-maintenance/Car-Wont-Start.html, make me think the blame lies squarely with the battery, because it does turn over without any clicking or weird noises.

However, it only turns over when hooked up to another car, but even after leaving it jumped for 30 minutes, it was still barely (slowly) turning over. The headlights are bright when I turn them on, while being jumped, but dim significantly when trying to start the car.

Electronics seem to work, and the only warning light I get is for the battery.

First question: should a car with a completely dead battery always start while being jumped if there are no other problems?

Second: can a starter or alternator go bad without any weird noises?

Update:

I got it started, woohoo! I replaced the battery (which was way more difficult than it should have been), and got the car started. However, the following things happened:

• my first time turning the key, the car turned over and then stopped. I thought maybe the battery was low quality, so I jumped it.

• Car clicked over and over without turning over.

• Tried again, click, click, click, then nothing.

• Fiddled with the jumper cables, tried again. The car started turning, then grinding, then smoke. Based on a quick search, it seemed the starter was gone.

• Tried again, and after a few turns, it started! I was really excited, and thought it would start again, so I shut it off.

• It didn't. I tried a few more times..more clicking, more turning off.

• After maybe thre more tries, it started again. I reved the engine to hopefully clear air or old fuel from the lines. I took it out for a quick drive and gassed up a bit.

• When I first started the car, a lot of really thick exhaust came out, but it seemed to clear up when I put more gas in it.

So, is this definitely a starter problem? Also, the starter was replaced recently before the car was parked. My sister told me the starter went out twice because of an oil leak that can't be pinpointed. Does this sound plausible?

Answer 1

If the battery is completely dead, especially after sitting for two years, it most likely won't take a charge. Without the battery getting charged, you most likely don't have enough juice coming through the jumper cables to give it the power it needs to turn the Aztec over. Double check the voltage at the battery without the jumper cables on it. If it is still low (or non-existent), replace the battery. I would bet this will solve your issue.

You'd have to be using some heavy duty jumper cables (I'm thinking 2-gauge or larger) to pass enough current through them to get an engine to start with a completely dead battery. Most regular jumper cables aren't anywhere close to this.

As far as your second question about the starter/alternator going bad without any weird noises ... sure, but first things first. Change out the battery or get it fully charged, then work on separate issues. Usually, a starter and/or alternator will not go bad just sitting for long periods of time.

Also, don't pay any attention to the battery light until after you get it started ... it isn't really stating the battery is bad ... it's there to tell you there's an issue with the charging system in general. If the engine isn't running, you won't be charging anything ;-)

Answer 2

It's the battery

Starting an engine takes a much larger energy impulse than jumper cables can deliver directly through their typically-thin wires and the small surface area of their alligator clamps. (Unless you use very heavy jumper cables).

So the way jump starting works, is you slowly add enough energy to the weak battery until it's charged up enough to do most of the heavy lifting. The jumper cables might handle 50 amps for 200 seconds, then when you start it for 10 seconds, the jumper cables still handle 50 amps but the battery itself provides the other 450 amps.

This isn't working for your battery because it's a potato. It's not even a potato battery. It's stone dead for one of two reasons: first they only last 4-6 years, so if it was older than 2-4 years when you parked it, it was doomed anyway. Second, leaving a battery to sit for 2 years like that is very rough service for a lead-acid battery, so even a halfway healthy battery wouldn't have survived it.

Lead-acid batteries are stupidly fragile and short-lived like that. If you want a battery that lasts 30 years, look at the Ni-Cd wet cell batteries, they are used on jetliners to start APUs.

A modern car like an Aztec simply cannot function with a potato for a battery. All the other symptoms you describe are explained by the dead battery: there may be nothing else wrong with the car.

Go get a $20 used battery from a local mechanic, one that has a battery tester, and you should be good to go, at least for a few months while you make sure everything else is right with the car. Then when the cheapie battery shows signs of aging, get a proper one.

Answer 3

Others have already told you the battery is a goner, I'll go into why:

When a battery discharges lead sulfate builds up on the plates. It is deposited in very tiny crystals that will covert back to lead and lead oxide when the battery is charged again.

However, if the crystals are allowed to sit they slowly merge, forming big crystals. These won't revert back when you try to charge the battery--the battery is now forevermore just two plates of lead sulfate in water.

If you're going to store a lead acid battery for an extended period you put a trickle charger on it to avoid this happening.

Answer 4

It's the fuel (as well as the battery).

After 2 years, the fuel in the tank has almost certainly gone bad. It's most probably also gummed up your fuel injectors.

Try spraying some starter fluid down the air intake to see if you can get it to run a little while. If it does, but immediately dies once the starter fluid evaporates, you need new gasoline.

Answer 5

I keep thinking why was the starter motor "changed a few times"; That is not normal,as you know; oil leaks do not affect the starter motor much,it is very enclosed,the oil flows around it;

1- First answer:Yes; but...a totally dead battery is a no-no; for 2 reasons: a) it will require extraordinarily good jumper cables,in the order of 100 dollars for the set; and b) big problem if the car starts,because "there is no battery" there; it's totally sulfated,it's junk,and the alternator will not "see"it!! And this may cause great harm to the voltage regulator in the alternator and/or to the ECU ,and other electronic modules(Expensive!!!); ALL car service manuals caution you, not to undo any battery terminal with the engine running,ever; a totally flat,sulfated,battery is quite the same as not being there;

2- Second answer; Yes,either can go bad without weird noises; of course the starter can go bad by not making any noise; i have also seen,although rarely, starters go bad for sitting many years(over 5) when the copper segments on the rotor commutator go black and do not make good contact with the brushes,the solution being the removal,and just running emery cloth on the commutator to get the copper bright and shiny again; and it doubles as a brush set check;

So,back to the multiple starter motors,2 or 3 years ago: it's possible (i have seen that many times!!) that the fat ground cable(s) from the battery to the chassis,and from the chassis to the engine block, is not effective any more: the bolt is loose,the cable crimp became bad,etc; You'll need to measure voltage drops with a simple multimeter,while cranking the engine; select 20 V. scale,place one probe,either one, on the battery post,right in the middle,and the other on the engine unpainted metal,say,against the cylinder head or bracket,or block; and then have someone crank the engine; you must see 0.5 volts or less; if you see much more than that,2 or 3 or 4 volts,you found the problem; if not ,do the same test for the other,the positive cable,from the +BAT to the starter (its solenoid); And,the very first thing, i would remove that old battery from there(it's junk,trust me) and put a fresh one in; the car must start on it's own,every time. Hope it was something simple, maybe get some fresh gas,or filter(gas needs to get to the top of the pistons),good luck.